Showing posts with label matter. Show all posts
Showing posts with label matter. Show all posts

Friday, 26 September 2014

Mediumship & Folk Models of Mind and Matter



By Jack Hunter, Reality Sandwich    Blog Ref http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Multi-Dimensional_Science
                
The following is excerpted from Talking with the Spirits: Ethnographies from between the Worlds, edited by Jack Hunter and David Luke, published by Daily Grail Publishing.
Introduction
This chapter explores the role of experiences with trance and physical mediumship in the development of folk models of mind and matter, at a non-denominational spiritualist home-circle called the Bristol Spirit Lodge. Mediums and sitters often claim that mediumship has led them to understand the world differently, and to appreciate that the standard materialistic view of science is inadequate as an all encompassing model of reality. Certain key themes and concepts have emerged from my informants’ experiences with mediumship that hint at alternative models of understanding the relationship between mind and matter, including the idea that bodies are permeable, that matter is essentially non-physical, that consciousness is far more expansive than our normal waking state would lead us to believe, and that persons are multiple, can survive death, and may be influenced by external spiritual entities.
To begin, we will briefly examine the anthropological debate over spirit possession,  taking a quick tour through the various theoretical models developed to account for the existence of this human phenomenon. This will be followed by an introduction to the history of Spiritualism, and in particular to physical mediumship, in order to give an idea of the kind of spirit mediumship that forms the basis for discussion in this chapter. The chapter will conclude with an analysis of extracts from ethnographic interviews with members of the Bristol Spirit Lodge.
Ethnographic Parallels
Ethnographic parallels of spiritualist mediumship can be found in the many varieties of what are loosely labelled ‘spirit possession’ traditions (Schmidt & Huskinson, 2010; Dawson, 2011), and what I.M. Lewis refers to as ‘ecstatic religions’ (Lewis, 1971), which occur, in one form or another, in almost all human societies. Spirit possession can be broadly defined in Janice Boddy’s terms as:
…the hold over a human being by external forces or entities more powerful than she. These forces may be ancestors or divinities, ghosts of foreign origin, or entities both ontologically and ethnically alien… (Boddy, 1994, p. 407)
The term ‘spirit possession’ is used quite broadly to refer to a set of related, though not  necessarily identical, phenomena (Lewis, 1988, p. 24), including both the belief that spirits can involuntarily occupy the body of an individual, causing illness, and the voluntary incorporation of spirits, ancestors and deities for social and ritual reasons. This voluntary incorporation is usually referred to as ‘mediumship.’ The discussions that follow in this chapter are primarily concerned with the voluntary incorporation of spirits.
The belief that the body can be temporarily inhabited by non-physical beings is particularly widespread. Erika Bourguignon (1973), in a cross-cultural study of 488 widely distributed societies selected from a compendium of ‘adequately described cultures’ (1973, p. 11), determined that ninety percent of her sample societies utilised some form of institutionalised altered state of consciousness, and that seventy percent of the sampled societies associated such states with the notion of spirit possession (Bourguignon, 1973, pp. 9-11; 2007, p. 375). Of course, there are important differences between the world’s various spirit possession traditions, which, like all human practices, differ in their cultural expression, but all share the common theme of utilising altered states of consciousness, of one form or another, as a means to interact with the ‘spirit world’ and the divine (Dawson, 2011, p. 9).
The Euro-American Spiritualist movement was, and is, therefore, part of a much wider human phenomenon, but while anthropology has been predominantly concerned with investigating spirit possession practices in Non-Western societies, there has been a distinct lack of research into contemporary Euro-American spirit mediumship (see Gilbert and Meintel in this volume, Nelson, 1969; Skultans, 1974 and Emmons, 2008 for notable exceptions), and even less on contemporary trance and physical mediumship. The research presented here, and elsewhere (Hunter, 2011; 2012a; 2012b; 2013) is intended to help fill this gap in the ethnographic record.
Theories of Spirit Possession
Anthropological investigations of spirit possession practices have usually tended towards the dominant explanatory frameworks of functionalism, pathology (psychological and medical), performance studies, and, more recently, cognitive science and neurophysiology. (Stoller, 1994, p. 637; Dawson 2011). We will now briefly examine some of these approaches, before outlining the methodological approach employed in this chapter.
Functionalist interpretations generally hold that spirit possession performs an essential function for the social group within which it is practiced. Lewis (1971), for example, has argued that spirit possession rituals often serve as ‘thinly disguised protest movements directed against the dominant sex’ (or, indeed, any other dominant group), because during the period of possession the possessed is ‘totally blameless’ for their actions; ‘responsibility lies not with them, but with the spirits’ (1971, pp. 31-32), allowing the socially repressed to vent their frustrations publicly. Functionalist analyses of spirit possession in this vein have been very popular amongst anthropologists and have been applied to numerous societies worldwide (Giles, 1987, p. 235). These include accounts of the Zar possession cult of Northern Sudan (Boddy, 1988), spirit possession amongst the Digo in Southern Kenya (Gomm, 1975), amongst Brazilian mediums (Fry, 1986), in the case of spontaneous epidemics of spirit possession in Malaysian factories (Ong, 1988), and even in a Spiritualist home-circle in 1960s Wales (Skultans, 1974).
Psychoanalytic approaches to spirit possession are less widespread, but are perhaps best represented by Gannanath Obeyesekere’s (1984) seminal study of spirit possession in Sri Lanka. Obeyesekere interpreted possession as a symptom, along with other symbolic bodily expressions (for example the matted hair of priestesses), as outward symbols of repressed negative life experiences. Psychoanalytic interpretations of spirit possession emphasize ‘past traumatic and distressful experiences’ in the lives of the possessed (Budden, 2003, p. 28), and suggest that the behaviours and psychological sensations associated with the possession state are symbolic symptoms of the unconscious repression of such negative life experiences.
The association of spirit possession with pathology has been a persistent and widespread theme in anthropological and other social-scientific analyses (Csordas 1987; Zingrone, 1994, pp. 102-103; Emmons, 2008, p. 72). Specifically, spirit possession has been associated with epilepsy (Carrazana et al., 1999; Jilek-Aall, 1999), nutrient deficiency (Kehoe & Giletti, 1981; Bourguignon et al., 1983, p. 414), psychosis (Goff et al., 1991), and dissociative identity disorder (Braude, 1988; Taves, 2006, p. 123). From this perspective, then, spirit possession is understood as a symptom of underlying pathology, indeed spirit possession has even been controversially classified as a culture-bound syndrome in the DSM-IV (Lewis-Fernandez, 1992; Cardena et al. 2009).
Cognitive approaches to spirit possession have been gaining increasing traction within anthropology, primarily following the lead of pioneering work by Stewart Guthrie (1980; 1993) and Pascal Boyer (2001) on cognitive approaches to supernatural belief. Specifically, the work of Emma Cohen (2008) has been particularly influential. Cohen discerns two primary forms of spirit possession: pathogenic possession, in which possession by spiritual beings is understood to be the underlying cause of illness, and executive possession, being the deliberate, and desired, incorporation of spirits, often called spirit mediumship. Cohen suggests that the cognitive processes underlying pathogenic possession are the same as those normally involved with the ‘representation of contamination,’ while the cognitive faculties involved in executive possession usually deal with ‘the world of intentional agents.’ From this perspective, then, spirit possession is nothing more than the misinterpretation of otherwise normal cognitive schema.
While it is undoubtedly true that each of the approaches outlined above provides insight into the sociological functions and psychological underpinnings of spirit possession experiences and practices, it is also fair to say that none of them is able to provide a complete explanatory model of spirit possession. Functionalist models frequently fail to take into account the experiences and understandings of the possessed themselves (Bowker, 1973; Boddy, 1988, p. 4), and do not always correspond with the ethnographic facts (Wilson, 1967; Rasmussen, 1994, p. 76). Similarly, cognitive approaches have been criticised for their reduction of particularly complex social and experiential phenomena to highly specific, not to mention speculative, cognitive processes (Halloy, 2010). Pathological interpretations also fall short of the ethnographic reality, with mediums often displaying fewer signs of mental illness than non-mediums in a variety of different cultural contexts (Moreira-Almeida et al., 2008, p. 420; Roxburgh & Roe, 2011, p. 294), and preliminary neurophysiological research suggests that there are significant neurophysiological differences between possession states and pathological states, such as epilepsy (Oohashi et al., 2002; Hageman et al., 2010).
Methodological Orientation: An Experiential Approach
The approach employed here, then, will not begin from the assumption that spirit possession is a pathological condition, and nor will it assume that mediumship is a purely social-functional phenomenon (though it undoubtedly does perform social functions). Furthermore, rather than attempting to reduce the complexity of spirit possession to specific cognitive and neurophysiological processes, the research presented here seeks to take the first-hand experiences of fieldwork informants seriously, at face-value, in order to explore what such experiences might tell us about their world-view, and the development of specific folk models of mind and matter. I use the term ‘folk’ here to refer to models of understanding the mind and matter built upon personal experience, inference and intuition, that is how models of mind are formed from personal experience (Berlotti & Magnani, 2010, p. 252). This emphasis on experience falls neatly in line with what folklorist David J. Hufford has called the experience-centred approach. Hufford argues in favour of the ‘experiential source hypothesis’ (ESH) as a tool for investigating ‘supernatural’ beliefs and experiences. The ESH breaks away from the more widely accepted cultural source hypothesis, which holds that paranormal experiences and beliefs arise from the diffusion of specific cultural ideas, in favour of the notion that supernatural beliefs might have their origins in real-life experiences, regardless of whether such experiences are genuinely ‘paranormal’ or not. Hufford writes:
The primary theoretical statement of the [experience-centred] approach might be roughly summed up as follows: some significant portion of traditional supernatural belief is associated with accurate observations interpreted rationally. This does not suggest that all such belief has this association. Nor is this association taken as proof that the beliefs are true [...] (Hufford, 1982, p. xviii)
So the idea here, in the context of the Bristol Spirit Lodge, is that their ‘ethno-metaphysics’ (Hallowell, 2002, p. 20), comprising their folk-models of consciousness, is founded upon rational interpretations of experiences had during séances and in the process of mediumship development. That is not, as Hufford states, to say that such experiences are genuinely of a paranormal nature (though they could be), but just to suggest that their experiences have validity in themselves, and that such beliefs are not to be lightly brushed aside as necessarily irrational or unfounded (Turner, 1993, p. 11; Bowie, 2013), indeed they may be able to tell us something of interest about the nature and phenomenology of human consciousness, and about the relationship between consciousness and the physical body (Peres et al., 2012; Hunter, 2013a).
A Brief History of Spiritualist Mediumship
The Spiritualist movement has many historical predecessors in the form of, amongst other historical seers and prophets, the Eighteenth Century Swedish mystic and scientist Emmanuel Swedenborg, whose journey’s through the spirit world while in a trance state seemed to pre-empt the Spiritualist movement by almost a century (Van Dusen, 1994). The craze for animal magnetism, also known as mesmerism, in the early Nineteenth Century also pre-empted, and was eventually subsumed by, the Spiritualist movement. Patients undergoing mesmeric treatments often seemed to exhibit extrasensory powers while in the mesmeric trance (Inglis, 1989, pp. 46-60), and some even claimed to be in contact with spiritual beings.
The Spiritualist movement, as a distinct phenomenon, however, didn’t officially take shape until March 31st 1848 when, in the small town of Hydesville in New York State, the home of the Fox family became the locus of some unusual psychokinetic activity (Doyle, 2006; Pearsall, 2004, pp. 29-33; Melechi, 2008, p. 161; Byrne, 2010, p.18). The Fox’s were plagued by perplexing anomalous bangs and knocks on the walls and ceiling of their modest wooden house. In an effort to make sense of what was going on the two youngest sisters of the family, Kate and Margaret, began to address the knocks as though they were being produced by an invisible intelligence. The sisters soon realised that they could communicate with this apparently invisible agent through a simple code of knocks, one for ‘Yes’ and two for ‘No,’ and in this way discovered that the mysterious knocker was the spirit of a pedlar by the name of Charles Rosma, who had been murdered in the house some years before the Fox family moved in (Bednarowski, 1980, p. 213; Gauld, 1982, p. 3; Taves, 1999, p. 166; Pearsall, 2004; Stemman, 2005, p. V; Blum, 2007; Warner, 2008, p. 221; Byrne, 2010; Moreman, 2010, p. 161). This would come to be known as the ‘spiritual telegraph.’
News of the Fox sisters and their apparent ability to communicate with invisible spirits spread rapidly across the United States and Europe leaving a trail of individuals discovering their own ability to communicate with the dead (Nelson, 1969, p. 5). By 1853, only five years after the movement’s birth in New York State, Spiritualism had become a religion, and spread across the Atlantic to secure a firm foothold in Britain with the establishment of the first Spiritualist Church in the small town of Keighley in Yorkshire (Doyle, 2006, p. 84; Nelson, 1969, p. 91). Before long the manifestations of spirit communication began to diversify, evolving from simple question and answer sessions with knocks, through experiments with Ouija boards and automatic writing to full trance communications utilising deep altered states of consciousness, and eventually to the alleged materialisation of spirits from the mysterious semi-physical substance known as ‘ectoplasm’ (Moreman, 2010, p. 161).
The earliest form of Spiritualist mediumship, comprising raps and knocks, evolved into what would later be called ‘physical mediumship,’ defined by Jon Klimo as the purported ability of certain mediums to ‘channel unknown energies that affect the physical environment in ways that can be directly experienced by persons other than the channel’ (Klimo, 1987, p. 200). Perhaps the most influential innovator in early physical mediumship was the Scottish-born American medium Daniel Dunglas Home (1833-1886). After an early life allegedly filled with spiritual visions and premonitions, Home conducted his first séance at the age of eighteen and swiftly gained a reputation as a powerful medium. By 1856 Home was conducting séances in Britain. Séances with Home were said to feature a wide range of inexplicable phenomena, from communications with spirits while the medium was in a deep trance state, to the materialisation of hands and heads, and the levitation and apportation (spontaneous appearance) of objects. In 1868 he performed his most famous paranormal feat – the levitation of his body horizontally out through a third-story window at Ashley House in London. (Doyle, 2006, p. 99; Lamont, 2006, pp. 185-187).
In 1874 Home’s mediumship received further support with the publication of a positive report by physicist Sir William Crookes. Using specially designed laboratory equipment Crookes tested Home’s ability to change the weight of physical objects and to play tunes on an accordion suspended out of reach in a cage (Lamont, 2005, pp. 204-207; Alvarado, 2006, p. 142; Melechi, 2008, pp. 198-200). Arthur Conan Doyle considered Home to be something of a virtuoso in that he was proficient in four different forms of mediumship: the direct voice (whereby spirits communicate verbally independent of the medium), trance mediumship (whereby spirits communicate verbally through the body of the medium), clairvoyance (the ability to see visions of the spirit world, the future and distant locations) and physical mediumship (the ability to psychically manipulate physical objects) (Doyle, 2006, p. 106). Home’s abilities form the core phenomena of physical mediumship, even today.
Owing to numerous exposures of fraudulence, especially after the foundation of the Society for Psychical Research in 1882, physical mediumship slowly declined in popularity to be replaced with somewhat more refined forms of clairvoyant and trance mediumship, which came to be known as ‘mental mediumship’ (Neher, 1990, p. 207). Three of the most influential and rigorously investigated mental mediums, Leonora Piper (1857–1950), Gladys Osborne Leonard (1882-1968) and Eileen J. Garrett (1893-1970), would enter into a deep trance state during which ostensible spirits would communicate through their inert bodies giving apparently veridical information under controlled conditions to sitters and psychical researchers alike. This is referred to as ‘trance mediumship.’ Today, Euro-American society is perhaps most familiar with ‘platform mediumship.’ This is the kind of mediumship that you will find in the Spiritualist churches, as well as on television programmes and theatre stages, and is often referred to as psychic or clairvoyant (or clairaudient, clairsentient, etc.) mediumship. Platform mediums do not usually enter into a trance state (at least not a particularly deep one), and the spirit communications they receive are often highly symbolic, requiring interpretation by both the medium and the person to whom the message is directed.
By the late 1950s physical mediumship was virtually extinct in the United Kingdom, though there were several exceptions including the physical mediumship of Helen Duncan (1897-1956) and Minnie Harrison (1895-1958), amongst a few others. It wasn’t until the 1990s that an interest in physical mediumship returned to the popular consciousness (Foy, 2007).
A reinvigorated interest in physical mediumship developed after the publication of Montague Keen and David Fontana’s The Scole Report by the Society for Psychical Research in 1999, and the popularised version The Scole Experiment, also published in the same year. Montague Keen, one of the parapsychologists who investigated the group on behalf of the Society for Psychical Research, outlines the basic claims made about the Scole experiments, he writes:
Based on two years of regular séances, the Group’s chief claims were that they had established contact with a ‘team’ of spirit communicators [...] These had been accessed through [...] a husband and wife team, both of whom entered swiftly into deep trance, remaining thus throughout the proceedings, of which they retained no conscious recollection. The purported discarnate contacts had facilitated the manifestation of spirit lights, moved furniture, created apports (objects appearing from no known source and by no known means), displayed shadowy figures described as angelic forms, and produced films, allegedly employing a novel form of energy not involving the traditional ectoplasmic extrusions [...] (Keen, 2001, pp. 167-168)
Regardless of whether or not the phenomena witnessed at Scole were genuinely paranormal, the popularisation of the case led to the emergence of new experimental home-circles devoted to the development of physical mediumship, with circles often employing séance procedures influenced by the Scole group’s set-up (Hunter, 2012). It was at one of these new private home-circles that my main fieldwork informant, Christine, first became acquainted with mediumship.
Into the Field: Contemporary Trance & Physical Mediumship in Bristol
The Bristol Spirit Lodge was established in 2005 as a centre for the development of trance and physical mediumship when Christine, who describes herself as a mother and housewife in her mid-sixties, became convinced of the reality of spirit mediumship following a physical mediumship séance at Jenny’s Sanctuary, a well known Spiritualist circle in Banbury. She had been invited to the séance by a friend and, not knowing what a physical mediumship séance was, decided to go along to find out. During the séance, conducted in a plain room with about 30 sitters, Christine saw bright lights floating and flashing around the séance room, heard numerous disembodied voices, whistles and loud bangs coming from all corners, witnessed a ‘partly materialised something,’ and, to cap it all off, heard a voice that she recognised as belonging to her deceased father. In a short self-published autobiography Christine describes the profound effect of this séance experience on her worldview:
I now had no option but to believe that something very serious was happening. I felt sick with the sudden shock [...] I knew I couldn’t ignore reality [...] There are no boundaries. We simply cannot see all that exists. I needed to somehow persuade my mind to accept this fact completely; otherwise I would close my mind, whilst at the same time knowing that my previous belief was incorrect. I had believed that when we died we were dead. I needed to get a grip if I was to learn from the experience that had been offered to me [in] the séance [...] at Banbury (Di Nucci, 2009, pp. 23-25)
Prior to her life-changing séance experience, Christine claims that she was uninterested in religious and spiritual matters, jokingly describing herself as a ‘devout atheist.’ She claims no psychic abilities and recalls only two possible paranormal experiences from her youth. She does recall an invisible friend she had during a period of family disruption, but interprets this as nothing more than a ‘psychological crutch,’ seeing no reason to consider it a hint at her future interest in spirit mediumship. She was, however, particularly interested in the developments of modern science, having read Stephen Hawking’s popular A Brief History of Time (1988), and journalist Lynn McTaggart’s pop-science (some might say pseudoscientific) book on quantum physics and consciousness, The Field (2001). Her autobiography describes how she attempted to interpret the experiences she had while in the séance room through the lens of her interest in science, which she has characterised as a ‘DIY house-wifey awareness of science’ (Interview with Christine, 25/02/2013). She now has a great enthusiasm for mediumship, a fact alluded to by the sheer amount of time she spends in her Lodge with developing mediums – by now she has taken part in over one thousand séances.
The Lodge itself is a wooden shed in Christine’s back garden. Originally, while still based in Bristol, the Lodge was constructed, using £2,000 of her savings, according to simple rules recommended by Ron, the circle leader at Jenny’s Sanctuary. It was important to Christine that the Lodge be built with love, and that it be imbued with positive emotions. To this end all the materials used to construct it were blessed, kissed and treated with great respect. It was important to Christine that the Lodge only be associated with ‘positive energies,’ so as to avoid the risk of attracting negative entities during séances. The Lodge was aligned so that the séance cabinet, a curtained off corner of the room in which the medium sits while in trance (a direct descendant of the spirit cabinets used by physical mediums in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth centuries), was located in the North corner, a position deemed conducive to the flow of vital ‘energies’ necessary for the successful development of physical mediumship.
All mediums at the Lodge are working towards the manifestation of various physical phenomena including levitation, transfiguration (the appearance of spirit faces over the face of the entranced medium), ectoplasmic materialisation, dematerialisation of the body and psychic surgery, and all of this under the direction of their discarnate spirit teams. However, due to the difficulties associated with the production of such seemingly outlandish phenomena (which only highly developed mediums are allegedly able to produce), the majority of séances held in the Lodge are trance sessions, during which the medium enters into a trance state and allows members of their spirit team to communicate with the sitters (Gauld 1982:29). Spirit teams at the Lodge generally consist of between six and sixteen individual spirits with distinctive and consistent characters, ranging from children who died in the Nineteenth century, Victorian undertakers, through Native American chiefs and Chinese philosophers. Individual members of each medium’s spirit team are usually differentiated through the use of distinctive bodily postures and exaggerated vocalisations that allow them to be recognised as distinct personalities (Hunter, 2013b), and each spirit usually works towards the production of a specific physical phenomenon, depending upon their own interests. This emphasis on trance mediumship, or channeling (Klimo, 1987; Brown, 1997), locates the practices of the Bristol Spirit Lodge firmly within the remit of the anthropological debate over spirit possession (Lewis, 1988, p. 24).
Mediumship and the Development of Folk Models of Mind & Matter
As we have already seen, the Lodge was established specifically so that Christine could apply her ‘house-wifey DIY knowledge of science’ to understand the experiences she had during the séance in Banbury. Mediumship development at the Lodge can, therefore, be thought of as an on-going experiment in which both mediums and sitters construct their own understandings of the nature of consciousness and reality. The following extract from an interview with Christine demonstrates how belief at the Lodge is not a fixed position, but rather represents an ongoing process of learning, interpretation and re-interpretation. Indeed, in a recent interview Christine explained how she has a problem with the word ‘belief’ being applied to her, explaining how she thinks she is ‘generally mistrusting’ and that without evidence she has ‘difficulty believing in anything.’ Her conclusions about the nature of mind and matter, therefore, are founded upon her own experiences with mediumship. She says:
[Mediumship] expands the thinking. It certainly expands the possibilities. I wasn’t thinking any of this when I started six years ago. You learn all the time, I mean I’m doing three, four, Séances a week and have over a thousand Séances with all different people, all different mediums and all different situations. I am fascinated by it still. I am not one least bit satisfied that I’ve learned anything. I want more! Yeah, I want more and more and more. Because it’s just a bigger subject than any other I’ve hit on (Interview with Christine 16/06/2012).
A few of the key ideas that, according to my interview data, have arisen from this experimental process of experiential learning include the idea that consciousness can survive the death of the physical body, that personhood is partible, that the body is permeable, that reality is non-physical, and that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe. We will now explore these themes through extracts from interviews with members of the Bristol Spirit Lodge.
Interview Extracts and Commentary
The following extracts are taken from interviews with mediums and sitters at the Bristol Spirit Lodge between 2011-2013, and have been transcribed directly from audio recordings. Through looking at some of the ideas concerning the nature of consciousness and the body, as well as descriptions of interactions with spiritual beings, it is hoped that we will begin to see the emergence of key features of the ethno-metaphysical system of the Bristol Spirit Lodge.
1)    Survival of Consciousness after Death.
In this extract from Sandy, a nutritional therapist in her late forties and medium at the Lodge, describes how her experiences developing mediumship over the past four years, have led her to a firmer understanding that personal consciousness survives the physical death of the body:
Um, I’m much more relaxed [...] I’ve been able to think about what I believe in. It never occurred to me before, I just didn’t think about it. And, uh, it’s changed the pace of my life. It’s changed, um, my knowledge of continuation, after we’ve died, and it’s given me comfort in that way. The funny thing was before it ever happened, um, I knew my brother and my grandmother still existed, but it never occurred to me that anybody else did either. Because they were the only two people I knew who’d died, then I knew they were still about, but that’s as far as I’d ever thought it, I’d never looked into any of it ever, I’d just never considered any of it ever (Interview with Sandy 23/03/2011).
It was only after being introduced to mediumship by Christine, and subsequently developing trance mediumship herself, that Sandy came to realise that consciousness survives after the death of the body. Similarly, in this quotation from Emily, a 33 year old mother of two and office worker who has recently begun to develop physical mediumship, explains how her experiences with mediumship have led to a reassurance of her own belief in survival:
I think it has proven that there is more to ‘life’ and I guess I’m not worried about death [...] I also feel like I am contributing to getting the message and something evidential ‘out there’ to help people believe in the reality of continuing life, as I believe this to be, and come closer to understanding what exists around them. I feel that it’s amazing and it should be shared! (Interview with Emily 12/02/2013).
Emily first became seriously interested in mediumship following a health scare that prompted her to question the possibility of life after death. Her experiences with mediumship development have helped to diminish her concerns about dying.
2)    Spiritual Augmentation
One of the most interesting ideas that has emerged, in my opinion, is that spiritual beings can be useful, that they can actually help in everyday life in a variety of ways. I refer to this as an augmentation. In her study of Afro-Cuban Spiritism, for example, Diana Espirito Santo argues that mediumship is a ‘type of partnership between a person and a series of spirits’ and that the ‘person’ of the medium is a ‘meeting-ground for the unique abilities of each of the spirits belonging to her spiritual cordon’ (Espirito Santo, 2011, p. 102). Spirit mediumship can be thought of, therefore, as a process whereby the medium’s person is expanded through the incorporation of other spiritual beings, thus creating what could be considered a composite, or multiple, personhood. Here Sandy explains how the spirits help her to keep a clear mind, assisting in the recall and implementation of knowledge and information:
[The spirits] help me keep a clearer mind, and therefore I am able to make better decisions. I can utilise information that I’ve got [...] I did a degree in nutritional medicine, years ago I was a nurse and a mid-wife, and there’s a lot of information in my head somewhere, but I can actually tap in on information that I’ve not used in years and years and years [...] the knowledge is mine but it can be used more efficiently (Interview with Sandy 23/03/2011).
Simlarly Christine explains how she interacts with her spirit guide Fuzzy Critter (also known as FC). Fuzzy Critter plays an important role in the organisation of the Séances at the Lodge, and directs Christine on occasion in order to get the ‘energies right.’ She explains:
As time when on in trusting Fuzzy Critter, and these telepathic voices, I did get to a point where I knew it was separate from me [...] It was a separate personality. The words he uses are better than mine [...] his language is different to mine [...] His general way of working, it’s not me, in fact sometimes I’ll argue with him [...] I have a sense, he seems to approach me from this side of my shoulder, this side of my head [left]. I, in my own mind, feel that he’s a bit like a fluffy owl siting on my shoulder [...] Sometimes it’s annoying if I’m doing housework and he wants to communicate with me, and I get this feeling. It’s a bit like having something playing with your hair, or whispering in your ear when you’re trying to do something (Interview with Christine 18/11/2009).
For Sandy and Christine, then, spiritual beings provide a practical service through giving advice and helping to focus lines of thought and inspiration, perhaps echoing the classical notion of the daemonic muse. Transpersonal psychologist Alex Rachel has even gone so far as to speculate on the possibility that human consciousness has evolved along side, and under the symbiotic influence of, non-physical entities (Rachel, 2013). Christine recently explained the importance and practicality of this symbiotic relationship between spirits and the living, and how the modern world has forgotten something fundamental:
Mankind [is] missing something that is their natural right [...] The world is crap and we are missing a link that we are entitled to [...] Ancestors can offer their advice, their support, for real (Interview with Christine 25/02/2013).
3)  Porous Bodies and Field-like Selves
These kinds of experience appear to hint at a model of personhood that is somewhat different to the usually assumed ‘Western’ model of the person, which Clifford Geertz defines as:
[...] a bounded, unique, more or less integrated motivational and cognitive universe, a dynamic center of awareness, emotion, judgment and action organized into a distinctive whole and set contrastively against other such wholes and against its social and natural background (Geertz, 1974, p. 31)
Experiences with mediumship would appear, therefore, to lead towards a different perspective on the nature of the person, one that has classically been labelled a ‘Non-Western’ model of personhood, which is contrasted with the Western model, as outlined above, in that the person is conceived as porous and susceptible to the influence of external agents (Steffen, 2011; Smith, 2012, p. 53). This conception of the person as porous comes across most strongly in Lodge members’ descriptions of the body. Christine says:
I think we just flow through each other. Or, we’ve got very blurred edges, we appear to be solid, but only our eyes are seeing this solid, this light reflection which causes us to appear solid. We’re not. So, our boundaries aren’t where we think they are. We are here to experience whatever this is, this life-form, this stage of life is. We are here [...] to experience, or to perceive things as solid and individual and it’s a very little tiny part of a very big life. I think. Possibly (Interview with Christine 16/06/2012).
Christine conceives of the boundaries of the person as extending beyond the confines of the physical body, which itself only appears to be solid. According to this perspective the  ‘solid’ and the ‘individual’ are, to a certain extent, illusionary. With a porous body, then, it is possible for things to flow in and out of the person. Anthropologist Fiona Bowie has characterised this through describing the body, in the context of Spiritualist trance séances, as a ‘shared territory, holding the physical life-force of the medium and the conscious intelligence of visiting spirits’ (Bowie, In Press, p. 14). In further discussions, Christine has described her model of consciousness as being somewhat ‘like an onion,’ that is ‘a whole split into millions and trillions of consciousnesses that can act together’ (Interview with Christine 25/02/2013). This kind of pluralistic understanding of consciousness and the person recurs throughout the ethnographic literature (see, as one such example, Roseman on the structure of the self among Senoi Temiar, which is described as consisting of ‘a number of potentially detachable selves’ 1990, p. 227).
Here, as another example of understanding the body as permeable, Emily describes the sensation of spirit beings moving into her ‘personal space’ as she waits to go out into the Lodge to practice her mediumship:
Then usually around the table while we are waiting for the start I will feel a presence around me kind of like an enveloping feeling, the first thing I feel is as if a friend is standing unseen nearby. I have an awareness of there being someone there, near me, that is a friend. I then feel them come closer into my personal ‘space’ in some quiet gentle way (Interview with Emily 13/02/2013).
Emily’s description of a sense of presence, unseen but felt, suggests a model of the self as a non-physical field expanding outwards, into which other entities can pass. In this extract from an interview with another medium, Rachael, who has been attending the Lodge for just over one year, she explains how before developing mediumship she would frequently experience unusual, and often unpleasant, sensations of spirits moving through her body. She explains:
When they actually make a personal entrance into your body, that’s pretty bizarre. It would normally happen, um, in the middle of the night I’d wake up and there was something, it’s a sort of odd feeling, it’s like, um, if you can imagine taking off a polo necked jumper, but from inside yourself. It’s like something’s pulling, it’s kind of gone in, and then it’s kind of pulling out, and it’s, oh, I can’t explain it, but it’s the weirdest, weirdest feeling. But it’s quite horrible [...] It happened, um, on about three occasions through my thirties, and in the end I got talking to a medium and she said it sounds like a spirit entity in you, or something passing through you, and she said to contact the local Spiritualist church, but, I did that, but nobody there seemed to feel the same kind of thing: with mental mediumship it all seems to be outside of the person coming in through the mind and talking, it wasn’t, with me it’s a very physical thing [...] (Interview with Rachael 16/06/2012).
For Rachael the process of developing mediumship allowed her to come to terms with experiences that had previously been disturbing. Where once the experience of spirits moving through her body had been unpleasant and spontaneous, it is now both deliberately induced and enjoyable. She explains how mediumship development has made her ‘soft and squidgy’ and ‘more open to other people’ (Interview with Rachael, 25/02/2013).
There is also a belief amongst Lodge members that the physical body itself can, on occasion, dematerialise completely. This extract from a report by Jerry (a regular sitter and developing medium at the Lodge), on witnessing a physical mediumship demonstration, describes his difficulty in coming to terms with the apparent dematerialisation of the medium’s physical body:
I’ve been trying to think of words to adequately describe what I felt and saw, but it’s impossible really. I was sitting next to the cabinet, so when I was asked by Yellow Feather to move in front of the cabinet I was able to do this quite easily, despite it being in blackout conditions at the time. When Yellow Feather asked me to feel the chair, where [the medium] had been sitting, he wasn’t there! His chair was empty! The spirit team had, they said, dematerialised him. I found this hard to believe. But [the medium] is a big lad and I was sitting right beside the cabinet, and no-one walked past me. So where was he? (Jerry, October 2011)
All of this seems to suggest that the classical anthropological distinction between Western and Non-Western personhood conceptions is incorrect, and that there are huge variations in the way that consciousness and the body are understood and experienced even within a single ‘dominant’ culture. This is not the same as saying that the members of the Bristol Spirit Lodge necessarily partake of a socio-centric conception of the self, as perhaps exemplified by the frequently cited example of Japanese notions of an ‘interdependent’ self ‘as part of an encompassing social relationship [in which] one’s behavior is determined, contingent on, and, to a large extent organized by what the actor perceives to be the thoughts, feelings, and actions of others in the relationship’ (Markus & Kitayama, 1991, p. 227). It is not this kind of social-self concept that I am referring to, because in most cases the members of the Lodge appear to possess what might be considered a normal ‘Western’ notion of the self in terms of kinship relationships and everyday social interactions. Where they differ is in the porosity of the self: the belief that the self can be influenced by non-physical entities, that the physical body is not permanently bounded and may be entered by non-physical beings as well as, on occasion, dematerialising completely, and that the self can leave the physical body during altered states of consciousness. What we seem to be dealing with, then, is a greater degree of intra-cultural variation in experiences and concepualisations of self and body than the standard Western/Non-Western dichotomy seems to allow for (Spiro 1993, pp. 144-145), and this calls for further investigation (Lillard, 1998).
4)    Panpsychism
The final aspect of this ethno-metaphysical system that I want to touch upon is the notion of ‘panpsychism,’ broadly defined as the idea that consciousness is inherent in all matter (Velmans 2007:279). Here Christine explains her understanding that even seemingly inert tables possess an element of consciousness:
It’s funny because [...] I think that table has an element of consciousness in it. I think it belongs to something. I think it’s part of something. I think it’s got vibrations. It’s got a something. I don’t know how aware it is, but people, or certain psychics, can pick up the memory of that table – the history of that table, the tree it belonged to. You know, if you get sensitive enough you can do all that stuff. I can’t, but it has a being, a something. That table does! If that’s got consciousness, that’s it, it’s beyond me, it really is beyond me where it starts, where does it come from? I don’t know where it comes from, I haven’t a clue, and it gets more and more complicated as you look into it and wonder about it [...] I don’t know what consciousness is and I’ve got no idea. I don’t know where it comes from. I definitely, I think it’s everywhere, but, everything is conscious to different degrees [...] maybe it collects together and becomes stronger. I don’t know (Interview with Christine 16/06/2012).
Christine’s experiences assisting the development of mediums at the Bristol Spirit Lodge have ultimately led her to an understanding of consciousness as a fundamental property of reality, and as ubiquitous throughout matter. This understanding has emerged from a combination of anomalous experiences in the séance room, and the metaphysical teachings of the spirits she converses with through entranced mediums. For Christine, séance phenomena are an expression of the fact that matter and energy are the same thing. Consciousness, as an aspect of physical existence, therefore, must also be energy, and so consciousness must be present in everything to a greater or lesser extent. She explains how mediumship is simply the ‘energy of people that have died interacting with the energy of people who are alive’ (Interview with Christine 25/02/2013).
Preliminary Conclusions
The often cited distinction between so-called ‘Western’ and ‘Non-Western’ models of the self and person appears to represent a dichotomy that does not fit with the ethnographic data (La Fontaine, 1985; Spiro, 1993). To assume that there is a neat divide between ‘bounded’ and ‘porous’ models of the person, and to suggest that these represent discrete ‘Western’ and ‘Non-Western’ categories, is an oversimplification of something that is far more fluid and varied. Experiences with mediumship development in sub-urban Bristol, for example, have led my fieldwork informants to develop models of personhood that would classically have been defined as ‘Non-Western.’ What we appear to be dealing with, therefore, is a much greater degree of intra-cultural variation in understandings about the nature of consciousness and its relation to the body than the standard dichotomy seems to allow for, and this variation derives, to a large extent, from personal experience (Luhrmann, 2012, xxii).
In the context of the Bristol Spirit Lodge, mind and matter are causally interconnected and frequently overlapping. Discarnate, non-physical, spirits can interact with physical bodies, and the material world can be influenced by conscious intention, for example in the practice of psychic surgery. Ectoplasm represents a half-way substance between the physical and the non-physical: it is believed to be extruded from the physical body so that it can be manipulated by non-physical spirits. The human body can, on occasion, even be dematerialised completely under the influence of spiritual entities, and consciousness can exist beyond the confines of the physical brain. All of this suggests a hugely different conception of the nature of the ‘self’ to the often assumed ‘bounded, unique…distinctive whole’ (Geertz, 1974) of the Western notion of the self. 
To conclude, it is clearly important to take experience seriously in the study of folk-psychology, ethno-metaphysics and supernatural belief. Through attempting to understand the experiential foundations of belief in, for example, survival of consciousness after death, the permeability of the body and pluralistic models of the self, we can move towards a more nuanced understanding of different cultural and sub-cultural systems. Ideas that might, at first glance, appear outlandish need not necessarily be classified as irrational or unscientific, but can be understood as logical conclusions drawn from first-hand personal experiences interpreted rationally (Hufford, 1982; Turner, 1993; Bowie, 2013). Once we are able to move beyond the hegemonic dismissal of alternative modes of understanding the relationship between the mind and the body, we open ourselves up to a much wider range of possibilities regarding the nature of consciousness (Cohen & Rapport, 1995, p. 13; Samuel & Johnston, 2013).
1606999_1476510852570993_2075421392_n
Bibliography
Alvarado, C.S. (2006). ‘Human Radiations: Concepts of Force in Mesmerism, Spiritualism and Psychical Research.’ Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, Vol. 70, No. 884, pp. 138-162.
Bednarowski, M.F. (1980). ‘Outside the Mainstream: Women’s Religion and Women Religious Leaders in Nineteenth Century America.’ Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 48, No. 2, pp. 207-232.
Blum, D. (2007). Ghost Hunters: The Victorians and the Hunt for Proof of Life After Death. London: Arrow Books.
Boddy, J. (1988). ‘Spirits and Selves in Northern Sudan: The Cultural Therapeutics of Possession and Trance.’ American Ethnologist, Vol.15, No. 1, pp. 4-27.
Bourguignon, E. (1973). Religion, Altered States of Consciousness and Social Change. Columbus: Ohio State University Press.
Bourguignon, E. (1973). ‘A Framework for the Comparative Study of Altered States of Consciousness.’ In E. Bourguignon (ed.) (1973). Religion, Altered States of Consciousness and Social Change. Columbus: Ohio State University Press. pp. 3-38.
Bourguignon, E. (2007). ‘Spirit Possession.’ In C. Casey & R.B. Edgerton (eds.) (2007). A Companion to Psychological Anthropology. Oxford: Blackwell Publishing Ltd. pp. 374-388.
Bourguignon, E. Bellisari, A. & McCabe, S. (1983). ‘Women, Possession Trance Cults, and the Extended Nutrient-Deficiency Hypothesis.’ American Anthropologist, Vol. 85, No. 2, pp. 413-416.
Bowie, F. (2013). ‘Building Bridges, Dissolving Boundaries: Towards a Methodology for the Ethnographic Study of the Afterlife, Mediumship and Spiritual Beings.’ Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 81, No. 3, pp. 698-733.
Bowie, F. (In Press). ‘Material and Immaterial Bodies: Ethnographic Reflections on a Trance Séance.’
Bowker, J. (1973). The Sense of God: Sociological, Anthropological and Psychological Approaches to the Origin of the Sense of God. Oxford: Clarendon Press.
Boyer, P. (2001). Religion Explained: The Human Instincts that Fashion Gods, Spirits and Ancestors. London: William Heinnemann.
Braude, S. (1988). ‘Mediumship and Multiple Personality Disorder.’ Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, Vol. 55, No. 813, pp. 177-195.
Brown, M.F. (1997). The Channeling Zone: American Spirituality in an Anxious Age. Harvard: Harvard University Press.
Budden, A. (2003). ‘Pathologizing Possession: An Essay on Mind, Self and Experience in Dissociation.’ Anthropology of Consciousness, Vol. 14, No. 2, pp. 27-59.
Byrne, G. (2010). Modern Spiritualism and the Church of England, 1850-1939. Woodbridge: The Boydell Press.
Cardena, E., Van Duijil, M., Weiner, L.A. & Terhune, D.B. (2009). ‘Possession/Trance Phenomena.’ In P.F. Dell & J.A. O’Neil (eds). (2009). Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: DSM-V and Beyond. New York: Routledge. (pp. 171-184).
Carrazana, E., DeToledo, J., Tatum, W., Rivas-Vasquez, R., Rey, G. & Wheeler, S. (1999). ‘Epilepsy and Religious Experience: Voodoo Possession.’ Epilepsia, Vol. 40, No. 2, pp. 239-241.
Cohen, A.P. & Rapport, N. (1995). ‘Introduction: Consciousness in Anthropology.’ In A.P. Cohen & N. Rapport (eds.) (1995). Questions of Consciousness. London: Routledge. (pp. 1-18).
Cohen, E. (2008). ‘What is Spirit Possession? Defining, Comparing and Explaining Two Possession Forms.’ Ethos, Vol. 73, No. 1, pp. 101-126.
Csordas, T.J. (1987). ‘Health and the Holy in African and Afro-American Spirit Possession.’ Social Science and Medicine, Vol. 24, No. 1, pp. 1-11.
Dawson, A. (2011). Summoning the Spirits: Possession and Invocation in Contemporary Religion. London: I.B. Tauris.
Di Nucci, C. (2009). Spirits in a Teacup: Questioning the Reality of Life After Death has led one Housewife Along an Adventurous Path Towards Discovery. (www. lulu.com).
Doyle, A.C. (1926 [2006]). The History of Spiritualism, Vol. 2. Fairford: The Echo Library.
Emmons, C.F. (2008). ‘On Becoming a Spirit Medium in a “Rational” Society.’ Anthropology of Consciousness, Vol. 12, No. 1, pp. 71-82.
Espirito Santo, D. (2011). ‘Process, Personhood and Possession in Cuban Spiritism.’ In A. Dawson (ed.) (2011). Summoning the Spirits: Possession and Invocation in Contemporary Religion. London: I.B. Tauris & Co. Ltd. pp. 93-109.
Foy, R. (2007). In Pursuit of Physical Mediumship. London: Janus Publishing.
Fry, P. (1986). ‘Male Homosexuality and Spirit Possession in Brazil.’ Journal of Homosexuality, Vol. 11, No. 3-4, pp. 137-153.
Gauld, A. (1982). Mediumship and Survival: A Century of Investigations. London: Granada Publishing Ltd.
Geertz, C. (1974). ‘From the Native’s Point of View’: On the Nature of Anthropological Understanding.’ Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, Vol. 28, No. 1, pp. 26-45.
Giles, L. L. (1987). ‘Possession Cults on the Swahili Coast: A Re-Examination of Theories of Marginality.’ Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 57, No. 2, pp. 234-258.
Goff, A.C., Brotman, A.W., Kindlon, D., Waites, M., and Amico, E. (1991).‘The Delusion of Possession in Chronically Psychotic Patients.’ The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, Vol. 179, No. 9, pp. 567-571.
Gomm, R. (1975). ‘Bargaining from Weakness: Spirit Possession on the South Kenya Coast.’ Man, Vol. 10, No. 4, pp. 530-543.
Guthrie, S. (1980). ‘A Cognitive Theory of Religion.’ Current Anthropology, Vol. 21, No. 2, pp. 181-203.
Guthrie, S. (1993). Faces in the Clouds: A New Theory of Religion. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Hageman, J.H., Peres, J.FP., Moreira-Almeida, A., Caixeta, L., Wickramasekera II, I, & Krippner, S. (2010). ‘The Neurobiology of Trance and Mediumship in Brazil.’ In S. Krippner & H.L. Friedman (eds.) (2010). Mysterious Minds: The Neurobiology of Psychics, Mediums and Other Extraordinary People. Oxford: Praeger.
Hallowell, A.I. (2002 [1960]) ‘Ojibwa Ontology, Behaviour, and World View.’ In G. Harvey (ed.) (2002). Readings in Indigenous Religions. London: Continuum.
Halloy, A. (2010). ‘Comments on “The Mind Possessed: The Cognition of Spirit Possession in an Afro-Brazilian Religious Tradition” by Emma Cohen.’ Religion and Society: Advances in Research, Vol. 1, pp. 164-176.
Hawking, S. (1988). A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes. London: Bantam Books.
Hufford, D.J. (1982). The Terror That Comes in the Night: An Experience-Centred Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press.
Hunter, J. (2011). ‘Talking With Spirits: Anthropology and Interpreting Spirit Communication.’ Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, Vol. 75.3, No. 904, pp.129-142.
Hunter, J. (2012a). Talking With Spirits: Personhood, Performance and Altered Consciousness in a Contemporary Spiritualist Home-Circle. Unpublished M.Litt Dissertation, University of Bristol.
Hunter, J. (2012b). ‘Contemporary Physical Mediumship: Is It Part of a Continuous Tradition?’ Paranthropology: Journal of Anthropological Approaches to the Paranormal, Vol. 3, No. 1, pp. 35-43.
Hunter, J. (2013a). ‘Introduction: Taking Experience Seriously.’ Paranthropology: Journal of Anthropological Approaches to the Paranormal, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 3-8.
Hunter, J. (2013b). ‘Numinous Conversations: Performance and Manifestation of Spirits in Spirit Possession Practices.’ In A. Voss & W. Rowlandson (eds.) (2013). Daimonic Imagination: Uncanny Intelligence. Cambridge: Cambridge Scholars Press.
Inglis, B. (1989). Trance: A Natural History of Altered States of Mind. London: Grafton Books.
Keen, M. (2001). ‘The Scole Investigation: A Study in Critical Analysis of Paranormal Physical Phenomena.’ Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 167-182.
Klimo, J. (1987). Channeling: Investigations on Receiving Information from Paranormal Sources. Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher.
La Fontaine, J.S. (1985). ‘Person and Individual: Some Anthropological Reflections.’ In M. Carrithers, Collins, S. & Lukes, S., (1985). The Category of the Person: Anthropology, Philosophy, History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp.123-140.
Lamont, P. (2005). The First Psychic: The Peculiar Mystery of a Notorious Victorian Wizard. London: Abacus.
Lewis, I. M. (1971). Ecstatic Religion: An Anthropological Study of Spirit Possession and Shamanism. London: Penguin Books Ltd.
Lewis, I.M. (1988). Religion in Context: Cults and Charisma. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Lewis-Fernandez, R. (1992). ‘The Proposed DSM-IV Trance and Possession Disorder Category: Potential Benefits and Risks.’ Transcultural Psychiatry, Vol. 29, pp. 301-317.
Lillard, A. (1998). ‘Ethnopsychologies: Cultural Variations in Theories of Mind.’ Psychological Bulletin, Vol. 123, No. 1, pp. 3-32.
Luhrmann, T.M. (2012). When God Talks Back: Understanding the American Evangelical Relationship with God. New York: Alfred A. Knopf.
McTaggart, L. (2001). The Field: The Quest for the Secret Force of Life. London: Harper Collins.
Melechi, A. (2008). Servants of the Supernatural: The Night Side of the Victorian Mind. London, William Heinemann.
Moreira-Almeida, A., Neto, F.L., & Cardeña, E. (2008). ‘Comparison of Brazilian Spiritist Mediumship and Dissociative Identity Disorder.’ Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, Vol. 196, No. 5, pp. 420-424.
Moreman, C.M. (2010). Beyond the Threshold: Afterlife Beliefs and Experiences in World Religions. London: Rowman & Littlefield.
Nelson, G.K. (1969). Spiritualism and Society. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul Ltd.
Obeyesekere, G. (1984). Medusa’s Hair: An Essay on Personal Symbols and Religious Experience. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Ong, A. (1988). ‘The Production of Possession: Spirits and the Multinational Corporation in Malaysia.’ American Ethnologist, Vol. 15, No. 1, pp. 28-42.
Oohashi, T., Kawai, N., Honda, M., Nakamura, S., Morimoto, M., Nishina, E., Maekawa, T. (2002). ‘Electroencephalographic Measurement of Possession Trance in the Field.’ Clinical Neurophysiology, Vol. 11, No. 3, pp. 435-445.
Pearsall, R. (2004). The Table-Rappers: The Victorians and the Occult. Stroud: Sutton Publishing.
Peres J.F, Moreira-Almeida A., Caixeta L., Leao F., Newberg A. (2012). ‘Neuroimaging during Trance State: A Contribution to the Study of Dissociation.’ PLoS ONE, Vol. 7, No. 11, pp. 1-9.
Rachel, A. (2013). ‘Daimonic Ecologies: An Inquiry into the Relationships Between the Human and Nonphysical Species.’ In A. Voss and W. Rowlandson (eds.) (2013). Daimonic Imagination: Uncanny Intelligence. Newcastle upon Tyne: Cambridge Scholars Publishing. (pp. 321-339).
Rasmussen, S.J. (1994). ‘The ‘Head Dance,’ Contested Self, and Art as Balancing Act in Tuareg Spirit Possession.’ Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 64, No. 1, pp. 74-98.
Roseman, M. (1990). ‘Head, Heart, Odor, and Shadow: The Structure of the Self, the Emotional World, and Ritual Performance among Senoi Temiar.’ Ethos, Vol. 18, No. 3, pp. 227-250.
Roxburgh, E. & Roe, C. (2011). ‘A Survey of Dissociation: Boundary-Thinness, and Psychological Wellbeing in Spiritualist Mental Mediums.’ Journal of Parapsychology, Vol. 75, No. 2, pp. 279-300.
Samuel, G. & Johnston, J. (eds.) (2013). Religion and the Subtle Body in Asia and the West: Between Mind and Body. Abingdon: Routledge.
Schmidt, B. & Huskinson, L. (eds.) (2010). Spirit Possession and Trance: New Interdisciplinary Perspectives. London: Continuum.
Skultans, V. (1974). Intimacy and Ritual: A Study of Spiritualism, Mediums and Groups. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul.
Smith, K. (2012). ‘From Dividual and Individual Selves to Porous Subjects.’ The Australian Journal of Anthropology, No. 23, pp. 50-64.
Solomon, G & Solomon, J. (1999). The Scole Experiment: Scientific Evidence for Life After Death. London: Judy Piatkus.
Spiro, M. (1993). ‘Is the Western Conception of the Self ‘Peculiar’ Within the Context of the World Cultures?’ Ethos, Vol. 21, No. 2, pp. 107-153.
Steffen, V. (2011). ‘Intrusive Agents and Permeable Selves: Spirit Consultation in Denmark.’ In S. Fainzang & C. Haxaire (eds.) (2011). Of Bodies and Symptoms: Anthropological Perspectives on Their Social and Medical Treatment. Tarragona: Publicacions URV.
Stemman, R. (2005). Spirit Communication: A Comprehensive Guide to the Extraordinary World of Mediums, Psychics and the Afterlife. London: Piatkus.
Taves, A. (1999). Fits, Trances and Visions: Experiencing Religion and Explaining Experience from Wesley to James. Princeton: Princeton University Press.
Taves, A. (2006). ‘Where (Fragmented) Selves Meet Cultures: Theorising Spirit Possession.’ Culture and Religion, Vol. 7, No. 2, pp. 123-138.
Turner, E. (1993). ‘The Reality of Spirits: A Tabooed or Permitted Field of Study.’ Anthropology of Consciousness, Vol. 4, No. 1, pp. 9-12.
Van Dusen, W. (1994). The Presence of Other Worlds: The Psychological/Spiritual Findings of Emanuel Swedenborg. West Chester: Chrysalis Books.
Velmans, M. (2007). ‘The Co-Evolution of Matter and Consciousness.’ Synthesis Philosophica, Vol. 22, No. 44, pp. 273-282.
Warner, M. (2008). Phantasmagoria: Spirit Visions, Metaphors, and Media into the Twenty-first Century. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Wilson, P. J. (1967). ‘Status Ambiguity and Spirit Possession.’ Man, Vol. 2, No. 3, pp. 366-378.
Wilson, D.G.M. (2013). Redefining Shamanisms: Spiritualist Mediums and Other Traditional Shamans as Apprenticeship Outcomes. London: Continuum.
Zingrone, N. (1994). ‘Images of Woman as Medium: Power, Pathology and Passivity in the Writings of Frederic Marvin and Cesare Lombrosso.’ In L. Coly & R.A. White (eds.) (1994). Women and Parapsychology: Proceedings of an International Conference. New York: Parapsychology Foundation. (pp. 90-123).
  


                        


Tuesday, 20 May 2014

Mary Rodwell Which Extraordinary Human Experiences Matter

233.




Interview with the alien encounter researcher Mary Rodwell examines the stigma of extraordinary human experiences, and why science turns away.

mary-rodwell-bookJoin Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with Mary Rodwell.  During the interview Rodwell talks about how her research into alien encounters has caused her to re-think our approach to other extraordinary experiences:

Mary Rodwell:   Something I didn’t ever expect, Alex, in terms of my work was how much I would have to do in the public forum. Primarily I’m a therapist, you know? I’m a counselor, etc. I help people deal with their issues.  I never realized that the dearth of information in terms of extraordinary human experience is the problem. We’re still in a paradigm that is so limited in terms of how we accept extraordinary human experience and this is a dilemma because in psychology and psychiatry everything is seen as some kind of dysfunction primarily.

As soon as you experience a non-ordinary state of any kind, then you’ve got still the traditional, conventional way of looking at that as something that says this is an aberration rather than saying, “Hold on a minute, here. We’ve got people from all belief systems, all professions, all ages, commenting on these experiences. Can we not start to look at this scientifically now with an open mind? Can’t we at least look at the patterns even if we don’t understand yet how our science can quantify it? Why can’t we find a way of at least looking at the patterns of this so that we can get some sense of what this is saying to us about reality itself and consciousness?”

Mary Rodwell’s Website

Play It 

Listen Now:



Download MP3 (85 min.)

Read It:


(this transcript begins at approximately minute 29 of the audio recording)

Mary Rodwell:   I think that you hit the nail on the head. Something I didn’t ever expect, Alex, in terms of my work was how much I would have to do in the public forum. Primarily I’m a therapist, you know? I’m a counselor, etc. I help people deal with their issues, to get new perspectives for their own healing and integration, etc.

I never realized that the dearth of information in terms of extraordinary human experience is the problem. We’re still in a paradigm that is so limited in terms of how we accept extraordinary human experience and this is a dilemma because in psychology and psychiatry everything is seen as some kind of dysfunction primarily.

As soon as you experience a non-ordinary state of any kind, then you’ve got still the traditional, conventional way of looking at that as something that says this is an aberration rather than saying, “Hold on a minute, here. We’ve got people from all belief systems, all professions, all ages, commenting on these experiences. Can we not start to look at this scientifically now with an open mind? Can’t we at least look at the patterns even if we don’t understand yet how our science can quantify it? Why can’t we find a way of at least looking at the patterns of this so that we can get some sense of what this is saying to us about reality itself and consciousness?”

Alex Tsakiris:  That’s such a common sense approach but again, that to me is the clarity that you bring. That’s very common sense. It’s very straightforward and it makes perfect sense. I think we need more and more people who just lay that out in that way.

I do have to tell you that I just last week on Skeptiko I published an interview that I did with a Montreal-based hypnotherapist that does between-life and past life regressions. It’s a very controversial area, obviously, but the guy is extremely well-qualified, not at all woo-woo. He’s hooked up with the University of Montreal. Do you know Dr. Mario Beauregard? Have you ever heard of him?

Mary Rodwell:  It rings a bell, actually.

Alex Tsakiris:  He wrote a book called, The Spiritual Brain. He’s a highly respected neuropsychologist and he’s at the University of Montreal.

What I was really going to say is in my interview with Jean-Charles Chabot, who is the between-life guy, I said, “Look, let’s forget about the between-life and the past life regression. Let’s just look at hypnosis. You have to understand that mainstream science rejects the whole idea of hypnosis. They reject it because they reject the idea that there is such a thing as consciousness that is other than the brain. You can go to Google Scholar and look up scholarly papers that are done on people with broken bones who are in hypnosis and are given the suggestion to make bones grow and they do it. This completely contradicts this model that we have of this strict mind equals brain.”

I always feel the need to bring people back and say it’s not just the skeptics. Forget about the skeptics. It’s science. Science doesn’t accept this. Like you were saying with the analytics, we can get these people together and say, “Okay, look. The guy grew the bone in his arm so he clearly was in an altered state of consciousness and you don’t accept consciousness. You don’t accept that consciousness can do anything. Can we at least move past that?”

There’s a real resistance to it because they see this slippery slope and they see you coming. Right now they can push Mary and that crowd off and say, “Oh, don’t even listen to that.” But as soon as that door opens a little bit they say, “Wait a minute. There is a consciousness. Now we have to start taking seriously altered consciousness. Now we have to take seriously extraordinary alternatives.” Now it’s like oh, crap. Now we really have to deal with that.

Because you’re so generous with your time and you don’t need to hear me rattle on, here’s where I came down with Jacobs. I had a long conversation with Jacobs. In some ways not a lot was surprising but I talked directly about you and I told him that I interviewed you. I broke it down like the John Mack camp and the Budd Hopkins/David Jacobs camp. He just held to the line. As a matter of fact, he was even more strident than I’ve heard him before. He said all that John Mack stuff, all that spiritual stuff, none of it works. None of it stands up to scrutiny. None of it stands up to careful analysis.

Then where I really pushed him is something that you and I touched on. It really tickled me to push him on this. I said, “Dr. Jacobs, do you think there’s such a thing as a genuine spiritual experience? Is there such a thing? It seems to me that you guys are Humanists. Budd Hopkins was a Humanist and you kind of come from the Humanist side of things in your work as a historian. It’s a code-word for Atheism. It comes back to what we’re talking about. In mainstream science there is no such thing as consciousness. There’s really no such thing as any kind of real experience per se. It’s all just this random stuff. Is there a spiritual experience?”

He danced around and danced around but he basically said, “No. I don’t believe there’s such a thing as a genuine spiritual experience.” I think in a way it then all falls from there. It’s exactly what you and I suspected. If you reject that people even have spiritual experiences, that’s a lens that does it.

Here’s what I did get out of it that I want to bounce off you. I have an interview scheduled about some forensic hypnosis thing. He said, “The methodology has to be different and the methodology has to be along the lines of forensic hypnosis.” There’s actually quite a bit of research. I’m sure you’re much more well-versed in it than I am on forensic hypnosis.

I’ve hooked up with someone at the University of Liverpool, where they’ve done some really fantastic research for getting into the court system and how to use witnesses who are highly suggestible versus not, the best procedures, etc. The problem with all that as I see it is the forensic approach is great because it says what really happened, but as you and I know, from a spiritual experience kind of thing that doesn’t exactly fit.

If you take near-death experience—that’s how I break down near-death experience. You go talk to the doctors and they go, “Okay, clearly we have all these people that didn’t have a brain. It was cardiac arrest and after 15 seconds there’s no brain. But now we have all these allegorical, metaphorical, contradictory, the language of that other realm. I think there’s a certain reality to we have to try and sift through it in that way.

So that’s what’s really the crux that I want to talk to you about and see what your thoughts are. You can see the appeal for the forensic, let’s do it in a very systematic way to make sure we don’t introduce this and that because there’s a reality to that that we have to acknowledge. We can really confuse the whole thing by suggesting things even when we’re not trying to, or letting the other person on their own go and make stuff up even if the therapist isn’t doing it. So we have that side.

On the other side we have the nature of this information might not lend itself to that kind of rigor. There. I’m going to shut-up.

Mary Rodwell:  I understand why it’s appealing to those that want to have a structure and a baseline to understanding hypnosis and experience. The problem with that is because they’re not taking in consciousness itself and the fact that we have the ability to travel out-of-body and have experiences alone—I mean, we talk about astral traveling alone and the experiences of those. Because they’re not allowing for that they’re never going to get any further than that road they’re treading.

In other words, if you use forensic hypnosis for something like taking somebody back to an experience where they go up on the craft, what they will experience is purely what they’re seeing. “Yes, I’m seeing three beings. I’m seeing a light there and I’m not seeing any corners,” or whatever. But if that person wants to get an understanding of that experience they won’t get it from that visual picture that they’ve gotten. They’ve got to tap into another part of them to get the greater understanding.

Now I say to people, “When I take you into hypnosis I need you to honor the very first things that you see and experience. I don’t want you thinking about them because as soon as you think about them you edit. You edit what’s acceptable and not acceptable. So I need you to be pure in terms of your focus so that when you see yourself what exactly it is you’re seeing, even if the being looks strange, weird, and wonderful and you really don’t like what you’re seeing and you’d like to change that. That is where we have to stop it.”

So the whole idea is that we’re looking for purity of the subconscious information. What is hilarious is often what they expect and what they get are two different things. If they consciously wanted to have a picture of something it will be quite different to what their subconscious offers. It often challenges them in ways they never thought.

I say to them, “You know, if this was a fantasy or imagination you wouldn’t be picking that because it’s so different to anything you could possibly imagine. That in itself gives it credibility.” Because it’s not what they would imagine; it’s not what they would fantasize. In fact, it’s often the last thing they would want to fantasize or imagine. That gives it credibility.

My point is that as long as they stick true to the first things that come in, which is uncluttered by their conscious mind, it’s allowing a purity of the experience however bizarre, weird, and wonderful. If you can honor that, afterwards you can pick it apart. You can say, “Okay, how does that resonate with your whatever?” No matter how bizarre or weird, when I get to a certain point and say, “Does that resonate with you,” part of them reluctantly generally say, “Yes, actually it does, even though I’m still struggling with that information.” That, to me, has integrity.

If you are going to only allow what is consciously acceptable you are never going to get the purity of that experience. That is my point with all of this. I believe researchers have wanted to retain credibility. The nuts-and-bolts researchers are plainly trying to keep it as much as possible within a framework.

What I’m saying is that actually that framework isn’t useful because it limits what the person can actually explore. If we are truly wanting to explore multi-dimensional reality we have to let go of our own paradigm and they have to let go of theirs if they want to really see what they are experiencing in its multi-dimensional nature. We may not understand it scientifically yet but that doesn’t take away from its credibility and its integrity.

When you get patterns that are coming up time and time again with different people of different ages, different beliefs, different professions, all coming up with similar patterns, then that has to have some form of veracity. Otherwise every regression would be different. Every pattern would be different and it’s not. Many, many of the patterns are actually identical.

You know, when I work in hypnosis I will deliberately try and see if I can alter their response just to make sure that they are being honest with what they’re seeing.

They’ll say, “I’m seeing three beings.”

I’ll say, “Oh. So what color is their hair?”

They will disqualify that and say there’s no hair. I can’t make them see hair.

I can say to them, “What’s in the corner of the room?”

If they’re on a craft the first thing they’re going to say is that there are no corners. So even if I try to input information, which I do deliberately, they will disqualify it. If I try to say a certain thing to them, they will disqualify it. This happens time and time and time again. Yet afterwards they are even struggling with it.

But if people say to me, “What is the evidence of that experience? They haven’t got bits of the craft, they don’t have XYZ.”

I say, “The evidence is in the whole fact that they change as individuals. You don’t change after a hallucination. You don’t change after fantasies. But you do change after an experience and every single person after these experiences changes in a multitude of ways in terms of their understanding of their own spirituality, consciousness. Even in terms of their motivations and their focus. That is evidence of a reality even if you can’t make it any more tangible at its present time.”

The patterns, the constant patterns that I get time and time again with people that may have read nothing on this experience—literally nothing—there are some unique things they will say that only those that have an encounter will say.

But if you’re still going down the road of trying to keep this into a paradigm that is limited, we know the third dimensional world is a very limited paradigm and none of us fit into that box truthfully, no matter how hard we might like to.

I remember talking to a group of businessmen and a gentleman coming up to me and saying, “Oh, you’re the UFO lady. I’m going to have fun with you.”

So I started off with something I don’t normally do with these sorts of 60 and 70 year old businessmen, you know what I mean? Very much of their generation. I said, “I would like to issue a challenge to  everyone in this room that every one of you has had an experience that you can’t explain in third dimensional terms.” Not one hand went up. The guy that was going to challenge me didn’t say a word.

The truth is we’re all multi-dimensional. Even if we’re not aware or honor it, it’s there. The bottom line for me is that on some level if you resonate to that material, no matter how bizarre, weird, and wonderful it might be, all it’s saying is that you’re not consciously aware of that other part of you yet. Often through meditation or many other things we discover that there is another aspect.

For example, I’ve done past life work and I’ve had some really interesting results to that. Some very tangible. One lady came to me and she was terrified of birds. Never knew why. Absolutely phobic of birds. What bothered her was that her husband wanted to go to Ireland and he wanted to visit a falconry.

She said, “I can’t go anywhere near it, Mary, and I don’t know where it comes from. I’ve got nothing that’s happened in my life, etc.”

So I said, “I tell you what. We’re going to talk to that part of you that knows.”

I call it the “origin” of that phobia. It took her to medieval times. She was with her father who was a falconer and with her brothers. She was a girl and she was being taught how to manage her own falcon. But during that experience with her father she did something wrong and she damaged his falcon. She was devastated because he loved this bird. She took the guilt on that through her own inexperience she had damaged his falcon. This was something she felt like was an energetic imprint, if you like.

So we looked at how she could remember that energetically. We did that. She came out of the hypnosis and said, “I never in a million years would have believed that, other than that’s what I saw and experienced.” The proof in the pudding to that, Alex, was two months later she sends me a photograph of her with a falcon sitting on her arm and said, “Look, Mary, it worked.” Now if you see that as symbolic, you see that as a created fantasy that in some way worked it doesn’t really matter, does it?

Alex Tsakiris: Well, it does and it doesn’t because it’s challenging in a couple of ways. Because you’re obviously really bright you approach this in a very methodical way with the kind of controls that Jacobs is talking about, too, right? So you’re using some of the same techniques that a forensic therapist would use. But that is because you want to have some validation for yourself and for your clients that there’s a reality to this that relates to our reality. You know what I mean? That’s what we’re all doing. So I think to a certain extent we’re torn because sometimes the things that have the most meaning don’t fit our reality and we just have to accept that. But sometimes they do.

Here’s the part that challenges me: I look at, for example, the near-death experience and the spiritually transformative experiences. I think I’ve mentioned this to you before. You don’t see deception. The whole shamanic initiation thing, that works to a certain extent but to another extent it doesn’t work and it doesn’t happen and you don’t see it in the near-death experience.

If you do the between-lives thing, one of the things that’s interesting—this is a little bit of an aside but I think it relates to what we’re talking about. I was just watching Rick Martini. Have you seen his documentary? He went to the Newton Institute and did this fabulous documentary, Flipside. He’s actually a Los Angeles movie producer. He’s done some pretty big movies. But one of the things he pointed out that I really had to think about is the between-lives information—science , if you want to call it that—contradicts a lot of Buddhist thought about what happens, right?

So here we have this long tradition that everyone reveres, the Buddhists and the Tibetan Book of the Dead and they know all about it. Now we have 7,000 people come back and say, “No, that’s not the way it is. What you think about karma, it’s not like that. There’s no karmic penalty that you have to pay. It’s total love, total forgiveness. You’re judging yourself. How can we make things better?”

That is also what comes through in the near-death experience. It’s this pureness of love and you don’t get that from the abduction experience. You just don’t. Not in that way. Isn’t that a little unsettling? If we add in the fact that there is this mind control aspect to it, if we add in how humbling it is, right? We now realize that there’s all these other dimensions and we realize where we sit in our narrow little focus here.

The opportunity for manipulation, the opportunity for some being which is of a higher order of consciousness but isn’t really of the highest order to game the system in here, what are your thoughts on that?

Mary Rodwell:  You have to go to the soul itself and the origin of soul. If we honestly feel, as my work has shown me more than my background in Catholicism and all that rubbish that I was programmed into, I learned more by reading and doing work with past lives, with in-between lives, with people going to the origin of their experiences of whatever it is. I learned more from that that I gave credibility to than I ever did through any belief system that I came across on this planet.

That was going to the deeper part of someone’s psyche and I felt that had more credibility to me. Many of those that have had an experience like an abduction that’s been traumatic or difficult, they have felt very much victimized by various beings. I make sure that in all of that we explore the experience. We explore their interaction with the beings because there is always a dialogue that they’re not consciously aware of.

We also explore one of the questions I always ask which is, “Have you, on any level, consented to this experience?” They always go back to the soul and say, “Before I came here there was an agreement with a particular species that I would experience and there would be a trade-off. The trauma would be a catalyst for X or Y.”

Let’s face it. We’re very good at looking at good and bad. What we don’t realize is that sometimes our most difficult, traumatic, painful experiences are the facilitator of the greatest growth of understanding. Because it’s painful we see it as bad instead of realizing that that’s often the process of the greatest growth for us as we challenge ourselves through that process. It is always the soul guiding the journey. That is how I see it and that’s what comes over time and time and time again.

Alex Tsakiris:  It’s just extremely, extremely challenging because you also hear that from the between-lives and the past life thing with murder. You even hear it with sexual abuse. It’s just almost impossible for people to get their arms around that and I totally respect that. I can’t even touch that. I think it’s really, really challenging to go there in a way that most people are going to be able to get close to or relate to. It’s just too hard. It calls into question some of our core beliefs about good, about bad, and fundamentally about who we are and how we control things.

How firmly do you come down on that side of things? If I was going to take that all the way I’d say that you’re suggesting that these encounters with these alien abductions, we have to understand them from that spiritual perspective and that we cannot judge them without understanding that spiritual perspective. Is that to suggest that these beings are more spiritually advanced than we are? Would you go there?

Mary Rodwell:  I would say certainly some are.

Alex Tsakiris:  Right. Some people are, too.

Mary Rodwell:  Exactly.

Alex Tsakiris:  Are they just like us? One of my working hypotheses is that they’re a lot more like us than they’re different from us. Even their technology—it seems way out there but if we just take 100 years and extrapolate just a few hundred more, we might be able to get there. So maybe they’re not technologically that far along but maybe in the spiritual dimension they’re not that far along. Maybe they’re like us. Maybe some of them are perverts who are doing some pretty bad things and other ones are loving beings. What are your thoughts on that?

Mary Rodwell:  We have soul groups and we interact with one another through different lifetimes. One of the very interesting things in my book was a lady who had implants and she asked me if I could help her shift them or change them. She wasn’t aware that they were physical so much as energetic. Now, this was very new to me at the time. What was fascinating was that she said she couldn’t connect to her guides and spiritual side because all she saw was beings and spaceships. This frustrated her.

She couldn’t even put her head upright because of these implants. It was a really unusual regression in the sense that what I found was she isolated five places in her body which had implants. One in her head, one in her throat, one around her solar plexus, and one in her feet. So I said, “Okay. Who put them there?”

She described three reptilian-like beings as being responsible for them.

I said, “So can we ask why they put these there?”

She said, “They put them in in this lifetime because I had an agreement with them when I was in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany. I wanted to survive so they said they would help me survive if I agreed that in this lifetime I would have these implants and have the limits that went with these implants.”

The one in her head which we removed,  she explained what it did to consciousness. It was something that stopped her speaking about her experiences, which was another implant here. She went down her body and she knew exactly what each one represented. We energetically and spiritually removed them all, which was fascinating to see how she could articulate. She could create visually what they looked like and how she needed to remove them. So I found it fascinating that she’d seen it connected to a past life.

We removed all of these as far as she was aware from her subconscious. They were gone. She felt she could straighten up her head. All those things were positive. But I went back to her about a year later and I said, “Do you still understand it in that way that you had agreed to these implants in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany?”

“Actually, Mary, it came from Egypt when I was in Egypt before then. When I was aware of my future lives and I decided that I would have certain limits placed on me in this particular future lifetime. So actually I was the orchestrator of my meeting with them and the agreement to have the implants in the present life that I have now.”

Now wrap your head around that one.

Alex Tsakiris:  You really can’t. So let’s immediately flip over since that’s such a fantastic story. People do make this stuff up. We just know that they do and we don’t know what that means. Let me throw that in. We don’t know if that’s metaphorically true or has some kind of other meaning in some other way for this person. I don’t know. I’m not putting her down.

I’m just saying here’s what the evidence tells me. False memory is real. That’s proven. There are too many good studies that show that people can have false memories. Again, you have to open that up. What is a false memory? Is it a memory that doesn’t conform to our consensus reality? Some group of kids say they were sexually abused and they buried the bunnies and here are the bunnies and there’s no bunnies there.

Let’s accept for a second that false memories happen. But the darnedest thing is the people that want to go down that path are often these folks who then want to throw everything out and ignore the fact that recovered memories are true, too. In this real world here we can have two sisters who are sexually abused in the worst way by a family member and one of them says, “No, it didn’t happen,” and the other one says, “Bullshit. It happened. I was there and you were there and I know it happened because I saw it.”

And the dad is in jail because they did find out that it happened. We have physical evidence for it. So we know that that person really was able to repress memory. So now, from this Earth kind of reality thing, we’ve got this total contradiction.

We have this over here where there’s a false memory. We know it’s a false memory because it couldn’t have happened. We have the same kind of eyewitness that says, “No, I was there with you. That didn’t happen.” And we have someone that says, “I was there with you and it did happen.”

So back to your story. What do we do with the fact that we can’t necessarily trust all those stories? They may be meaningful for that person. They may propel them forward in their life’s mission. But in the sense that you and I are talking it might not be real.

Mary Rodwell:  Firstly, like I talked about the lady with the phobia of birds, at the end of the day my work as a therapist is to enter someone’s world and hopefully help them to understand more of their human experience. However they choose to interpret that is their choice. It’s not my business.

What I do look at when I’m helping someone explore their experiences in terms of whether it’s ET or anything else, I’m looking for patterns that I can work from. That’s the only thing I’ve got. Some people feel they have gone into another dimension, for example. They see aspects of themselves not human, for example. They see planets that they say they come from where they describe how they lived. All I can do with all of that is say, “Okay. Are there any others that have a similar kind of understanding when they go into that place? Have they seen similar beings? Do they have the same understanding of them or how they operate, etc.?”

This is all I can do because I don’t know what I don’t know. I can’t say from the third dimensional perspective. It just doesn’t even begin to touch the edges of this. So all I can do is continually look for those patterns. And the fact that through those experiences people change. However we want to look at it, they’re transformative. They change the individual. So that is the evidence.

They don’t change after hallucinations. Even with these experiences that people have on the craft, whether or not they can ever prove them. Some ways that I work are, when they come out with something extraordinary, I say, “Look, you articulated this in hypnosis. You can choose whether or not to believe what you’ve said or not. You can decide whether or not it resonates. If it resonates you can choose to integrate that or not. At the end  of the day, that’s up to you.”

Reviving the Ancient Polymath Spirit to Meet Modern Challenges We can embrace interdisciplinary learning for innovative problem-solving. Posted January 16, 2025 | Reviewed by Gary Drevitch

  by   Nigel R. Bairstow Ph.D. Disconnection Dynamics Psychology Today Key points Ancient Arab polymaths excelled by integrating diverse kno...